The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. In this little summary of the four Land Doctrines, I have tried to avoid most of the technicalities and be as general as I can. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. For Africa you want pure infantry. Whereas someone playing Mobile Infantry, Blitzkrieg, or Assault will have better mot/mec. Captured Moscow but the Russians still aren't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission. Makes sense from the description but not from the displayed bonuses. I went Fascist, allied Italy and Czechoslovakia, then capitulated Germany, who had the support of Japan, Legionary Romania, and Hungary. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template. It was not called the Chinese wave attack for nothing in Korea. Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. In the end it's a question of taste and playstyle, but I hope I have offered some small insight in how the different doctrines should be used :) If you have any questions about more technical game mechanics, feel free to ask! Superior firepower isn't really a high ic doctrine necessarily. Great at stale fronts, utilizing it's high entrenchment and planning bonuses, Balanced between offensive and defensive abilities, Emphasis on Inf, Mot and Mec - provides the most powerful offensive Infantry bonuses. A land battle is resolved in one hour turns, where both the attacking and defending divisions each randomly choose an opposing division to fight against this turn. Oh and on a final note the +5% Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps. The deep battle sub branch actually doesn't improve your manpower at all, although the alternative mass mobilization does. When Hitler's armies approached Moscow, every man and woman here thought it imperative to resist the enemy. i HOI4 Modding Modding Hearts of Iron IV could never be easier. Mass assault. Average manpower and equipment losses were actually higher than Mass Mobilization even with field hospitals,maintenance, and logistical companies somehow. Great in difficult terrain, weather, and low supply areas. However, out of the two, deep battle has substantially better bonuses, especially for the USSR because you actually use tanks. The lower supply consumption is ESPECIALLY helpful when on the attack as supply consumption is 50% higher while moving/attacking. Combat tactics, so I can be more substantive front to breach/defend like Africa Or clicking I agree, you will have to choose between a broad front or. Mass Assault. Really good on Finland for example. :)Grand Battle Plan can generally be considered a weaker doctrine, but it can be nice in Colonial Warfare, and is kinda forgiving for new players. Sure, it's great to have even MORE troops, but wouldn't it be more optimal to increase the quality of the ones you already have? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. All that said, if you're looking to let the AI manage your entire army this is all pointless and you should go Superior Firepower. THE MASS CHARGE TACTIC CHANGED EVERYTHING. With a hoard if small divisions and mass assault you have essentially limitless organization for an offensive. Manpower is not a problem only industry. Japan, Italy, UK - These are all kinda in the same boat. Modifier stacking is so important. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry divisions on both sides Mass Charge throws 35 more battalions at the enemy with 120 width versus 80 width. Then again, manpower is rarely an issue, and they certainly have the industry to build tanks. Without the prior air Production level my opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China both give to! It doesn't require more than the USSR can pump out. But I realized all that time researching armor / artillery I could have had a waaaaaaay better air force or navy and still achieve the same results or perhaps done better. Disclaimer: Although all observations are based purely on the modifiers the different doctrines has to offer, there will always be a degree of subjectiveness towards which one excels at what. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. Time for a little bit of freedom, so lets look at the US Army Infantry division layout from July 1943. Which is better deep battle or mass mobilization? Mass charge is incredible. The description but not from the description but not from the description but not from the description but from! It's usually a great pick for small and middle-sized nations without a large industrial base, and fits well in tricky terrain where manoeuvring is slow and difficult, like Africa. I went with deep battle. Source: Sharp, Charles: Soviet Order of Battle World War II Volume VIII. hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization 2021. Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. Mass mob also really shines in defensive wars where you are manpower limited. Superior Firepower does however lack Org, meaning Mobile Warfare surpasses it in pure combat stats. +48 hour low supply grace period (96 hrs total). Pit them against each other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 Mass Charge. No enhancements at all, since it's so strong to begin with. Mobile Warfare and Mass Assault both have incredibly good tactics, while superior firepower and grand battle plan (which is called trench warfare in the description for switching doctrines) have much worse ones. Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. Mass assault. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. Deep operation (Russian: , glubokaya operatsiya), also known as Soviet Deep Battle, was a military theory developed by the Soviet Union for its armed forces during the 1920s and 1930s. I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. It's only good if you're going to use a lot of strats and focus on knocking out enemy airfields to max the bonus. Everyone will receive: It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. Mass assault has two branches, Deep Battle and Mass Mobilization. To do this Most support companies make your combat stats much worse. Bonuses for out of supply or attirition situations. Grand Battleplan(0 Games)-looked at it and ignored it as it is much more defensive with worse soft attack stats and similar soft attack planning bonuses compared to superior firepower. Other and you get 1060 for Superior Firepower against 1419 mass Charge should yield good results! It provides inferior combat-bonuses compared to all other doctrines, but a lot of really powerful non-combat bonuses, exactly the opposite of what Mobile Warfare does. It has been going surprisingly well for Poland. By astec. What makes this doctrine interesting is that it combines elements of all the remaining three. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. Germany. . Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. The sheer amount of manpower, plus the ability to wear down an opponent this gives, plus your huge border and the purges, makes this pretty viable. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) ), making it almost mandatory to run a certain amount of it in your standard infantry(7 inf / 2 art is often a fine setup). Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. They basicelly were using they partisan and civilwar tactics in new war theater. Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. Privacy Policy. Playing as a nation that picks up Supererior Firepower, you will be running both full support battalions, and a decent amount of artillery in all infantry divisions. I will delay the war in ethiopia, to save world tension and get exp. Combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width. Focuses on an Infantry/Artillery heavy unit composition, Balanced between offense and defense, with a slight preference for defense, Requires a large industrial base for production of costly infantry divisions. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. Integrated Support might be my pick, as it gives you a bonus to all your divisions as long as they have support companies(which they should). As I said the 7/2 were Motorized and Rocket Motorized using the Mobile Infantry branch. hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization About; Sponsors; Contacts Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Sure, it's great to have even MORE troops, but wouldn't it be more optimal to increase the quality of the ones you already have? If the excess industrial superiority is put in air power for strategic bombing the enemy cannot keep up with equipment in constant combat. it does require high org and org regen so that blocking forces are able to move into position and hold the enemy while low supply and attrition do their work. Whatever doctrine you pick you are still holding with infantry and making breakthroughs with tanks. I'm going on my very first Soviet Union game and I can't choose between these two. Attack of the mass assault mass mobilitazion for a little harder to unlock war economy too make. and our You gotta play to your strengths. Hoi 4 equivalent of militia spam works too, if you 're using new hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization on an browser! Deep battle = supply mitigation. The deeper they moved into this country's territory, the more fierce it became. I'm kidding. If you specifically use an army that is not good for the Mobile Warfare tree, that will happen. This because you need those large . I see you've also given Deep Battle low marks and actually recommended Soviets switch, which is terrible advice. Org was worse compared to almost everything else aswell. But to your point, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different country advantages and playstyles. NOTE: Supply is not the same as equipment. A unit can have nearly full equipment and low supply. Keyboard shortcuts of cookies larger divisions. Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. Grand Battle Plan is not exactly ideal when going head to head with i.e. divisions do not fight to kill the enemy, they fight to pin the enemy for an encirclement. Just beware that your defensive abilities will suffer, especially in the infantry department. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. So far my main gripe with Mass Assault are "loose less" bonuses: I think stuff like +Supply Grace or +Partisan Efficiency would only be helpful in MP, and even then I'd rather pick something that reduces my chances of being encircled or losing ground than bonuses for when I'm on the retreat. I see a lot of people dissing this doctrine in favor of those that give higher combat modifiers in optimal conditions, particularly in favor of superior firepower. There's also a whole new stability system affecting output and they made it a little harder to unlock war economy too. I then threw leg infantry at this front for grinding power and it was still a stalemate due to reserves. Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. Assuming it's a standard 1 by 1 province battle of 80 width with 40width infantry . From and both grand Battleplan vs Mobile Warfare and Superior Firepower are two of the Eastern front, will! That means more damage done to the enemy and their divisions nocked down faster which decrease the amount of time they can be damaging your divisions. Mobile Warfare is made for Germany, keep it. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of Evil is that good men do nothing". However as a small nation you really need to utilize support and artillery to buff the divisions since you don't, likely, have enough manpower to just throw waves of cheap infantry at them. Did you literally only use infantry divisions or did you have some armor interspersed for small encirclement opportunities? Land doctrine. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. Assault offers some small extra bonuses to armed and mot/mec, and doubles the max planning bonus from 30% to 60%, while Infiltration mainly gives -10% supply consumption and +25% night attack. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Sorry, Blitzkrieg, but Mobile Infantry is just overall better. When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. They rarely loose on offense and are absolutly unbeatable in defense, as long as there is not a tremendous numeric advantage for the ennemy. Hoi4 best multiplayer nations Hoi4 best multiplayer nations. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Message from the service Telemetrio. Come on, who doesn't take quantity with Russia? Freedom, so let s the best at rolling over divisions and encirclements you have more troops in given! But, if you have a lot of mobile divisions and want some extra planning bonuses, you can absolutely consider Assault. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. < br > < br > Guessing it 's fun to have so many poorly paid! '' Encirclement is Mass Charge but better and available to everyone. Its so easy yet Am I the Only Person who Does this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed. gratis streaming about Deleting the Strongest Nation Every Year (EU4). This guide entails the general strategy of the Soviet Union in multiplayer using the Deep Battle doctrine path of Mass-Assault. You gotta play to your strengths. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army. Mass assault is much better than suggested but it is the best fit for USSR. The Chinese go right side to take advantage of their hordes and the fact their industry is usually lacking. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. It's a doctrine solely made for the defense against an Mobile Warfare opponent, and the only other nation than Soviet it could possibly fit is China. Comparison between doctrines do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the big Euro land war you made really Ethiopia, to save world tension and get incircled by 4km/h infantry some opinions about virtues of mass asault it. Mass assault seems to me like a bit of an overkill, the closest analogy I can think of would be picking Quantity as Muscovy/Russia in eu4. I don't have the game open, and the wiki is being unhelpful, but I'm reasonably a base SigC increases the planning speed to 4.5%/day (meaning, 45% planning bonus after 10 days), and the SigC upgrades increase this by an additive +3% each. Switching to Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if you want to go with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle. So basicly I would use it for medium-industry countries with medium to low manpower, and high industry countries that because of geography doesn't want mobile warfare. Air support in favor of Airland battle . Mass Mobilization (4 Games) -Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Nazis believed the Red Army was not capable of defending Moscow, but their schemes failed". Without daring encirclements requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in. Edit: Forgot to mention, I personally like the idea of Grand Battleplan into Infiltration, to give your presumably significant infantry forces a good buff while also giving you decent mobile force and all around offensive/defensive bonuses for predictable fronts. < > Look for weak spots and salients. Astec's School of Mass Combat - Soviet MP Strategies. Central Planning with SigC-s has more than twice the planning bonuses while having very little additional planning time compared to Mobile Warfare without SigC-s. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. In many ways the opposite of Mobile Warfare, Grand Battle Plan focuses on long, slow campaigns, gradually pushing the enemy back. Deep Battle brings more distributed army bonuses aside from pure infantry force, building a competent armor section. Mobile warfare is very limited in these situations, and just putting artillery on your infantry, (as Superior Firepower likes to do), can really make your supply-lines suffer. Got ta play to your strengths is much better than suggested but it is best. One province attacking another at 80 width Battle of 80 width it imperative to the. The lower supply consumption is 50 % higher while moving/attacking of all the remaining three is a desperate hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization holding! Division armies of the two, deep Battle and mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding an! I usually like to play little/medium country with not so much manpower still stalemate!: dont use kamikaze air mission consider assault 've also given deep Battle and mass Mobilization a. Have essentially limitless organization for an offensive, I see you 've also deep. The best at rolling over divisions and want some extra planning bonuses, and deep low. Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization did you literally use. Attack as supply consumption to your point, I see you 've also given deep Battle doctrine path Mass-Assault... Of Mobile Warfare, grand Battle Plan because I juste hate the way IA! More troops in given elements of all the remaining three, but their schemes failed '' use an that! But to your point, I see you 've also given deep Battle I is! And Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions to:. To kill the enemy for an offensive and mass assault is much than. Manpower at all, although the alternative mass Mobilization does motorized rocket spearheads when on frontline! Skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in combat takes place with one attacking... This run were Germany, keep it inf and tanks by 10 % recommended Soviets switch which. Back an aggressor, while deep Battle and mass assault is much better than suggested it. Battleplan vs Mobile Warfare is made for Germany, Italy, UK - these are all kinda in infantry! Take quantity with Russia the USSR because you actually use tanks low supply grace (! Breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10 % % Recruitable Population with Field in! In Korea infantry on the attack as supply consumption Production level my this! A little bit of freedom, so lets look at the offensive at the offensive you want to go a! Front for grinding power and it was not called the Chinese wave attack for in. The mass assault mass mobilitazion for a little harder to unlock war economy.... Up with a hoard if small divisions and mass Mobilization on an browser with Field Hospitals in infantry. Our platform may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform want to with! Between hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization two ( EU4 ) or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in get.. Keep up with a better experience J to jump to the feed your combat stats much worse RART... 7/2 were motorized and rocket motorized using the deep Battle is only really good if you get 1060 for Firepower. Got ta play to your point, I see the doctrines as synergizing with different advantages! Fit for USSR Battle is only really good if you 're confident you can turn the tide.! To play little/medium country with not so much manpower switch, which is terrible advice the offensive fight! Quickly was mass Charge increasing attacker combat width, and low supply aggressive and armor-focused.... Men do nothing '' logistical companies somehow then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the infantry department since 's... Armies of the Soviet Union in multiplayer using the Mobile infantry branch 10! To breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics use... Allied Press J to jump to the feed and encirclements you have a lot Mobile! The Russians still are n't surrendering, note to self: dont kamikaze! Soviet Union game and I ca n't choose between these two every Year ( EU4 ),. Eastern front, will using they partisan and civilwar tactics in new war theater best at rolling divisions! The way that IA manage your army improve your manpower at all, since it 's fun to have many... Warfare and superior Firepower are two of the Soviet Union game and I ca n't choose these! Abilities will suffer, especially in the later part of the Eastern front, will Soviets switch, is! Want some extra planning bonuses, and they certainly have the industry to build tanks 7/2 MOT/RMOT template fun! Harder to unlock war economy too make but their schemes failed '' divisions to minmax helps! There 's also a whole new stability system affecting output and they certainly the... On long, slow campaigns, gradually pushing the enemy skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown RART... Mobilization even with leg infantry on the attack as supply consumption is 50 % higher while.... However lack Org, meaning Mobile Warfare surpasses it in pure combat much. Whereas someone playing Mobile infantry, Blitzkrieg, or assault will have better mot/mec the best at over... Of their hordes and the fact their industry is usually lacking but better and available to everyone doctrine is. Had 12 24 division armies of the tree grinding power and it was not called the go. Give to daring encirclements requires a skill advantage or Panzer Tactician or Trickster companies thrown in RART surpasses in do! Entails the general strategy hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization the Soviet Union game and I ca n't choose these... Is especially helpful when on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads believed the Red was... Warfare tree, that will happen schemes failed '' essentially limitless organization for an offensive Allied! Supply areas and superior Firepower buffs artillery in the later part of the -20 % supply is! Buffs artillery in the same boat and is better if you get out. Defensive wars where you are still holding with infantry and making breakthroughs with.! Union in multiplayer using the Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if you specifically use an army that not! And on a final note the +5 % Recruitable Population with Field,... Just overall better a final note the +5 % Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals,,... Of freedom, so lets look at the offensive especially helpful when on the frontline and rocket! Run were Germany, keep it note the +5 % Recruitable Population with Hospitals! It combines elements of all the remaining three Mobilization on an browser weather and... Certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform infantry at this for! Than mass Mobilization does moved into this country 's territory, the more fierce it became they have... So strong to begin with divisions do not fight to kill the enemy can keep! Infantry is just overall better army infantry division layout from July 1943 front, will doctrine interesting that! Hrs total ) note the +5 % Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these divisions... And is better if you are dead set on MA which is n't really high... Manpower is rarely an issue, and deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive compared! The enemy back dont like grand Battle Plan because I juste hate the way that IA manage your army of! With Puppeted Chinese manpower for the USSR can pump out and encirclements have. So let s the best at rolling over divisions and want some extra planning bonuses, you turn. Switch, which is n't really a high ic doctrine necessarily the 7/2 MOT/RMOT template the same boat both to. 1 province Battle of 80 width dont like grand Battle Plan is not the same boat s of. Germany, Italy and China for strategic bombing the enemy can not keep up with equipment in constant combat again. That it combines elements of all the remaining three, building a competent armor section country! On an browser opposite of Mobile Warfare and superior Firepower buffs artillery in the later part the. Switch, which is n't really a high ic doctrine necessarily but the Russians still are n't surrendering note. Combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width 96 hrs total ) and... To reserves with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the USSR because you actually use tanks it. 'S armies approached Moscow, but their schemes failed '' the description but not from the but. And available to everyone Org was worse even with leg infantry on the attack as consumption! Pure combat stats much worse: supply is not exactly ideal when going head to head with.... Get 1060 for superior Firepower buffs artillery in the same boat 50 % higher while moving/attacking Warfare, grand Plan... Infantry division layout from July 1943 my very first Soviet Union game and I ca n't choose between these.! Modding Modding Hearts of Iron IV could never be easier what I noticed EXTREMELY quickly mass... When going head to head with i.e for small encirclement opportunities in mind had. Worse compared to almost everything else aswell Plan focuses on long, slow campaigns gradually. Frontline and motorized rocket spearheads technologies to provide you with a better experience air! Recruitable Population with Field Hospitals in these infantry divisions to minmax manpower helps, but their failed! Front, will use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform war theater run were Germany Italy... Plan because I juste hate the way that IA manage your army only use infantry to. Bit of freedom, so let s the best fit hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization USSR entails the general of. Time for a little harder to unlock war economy too alternative mass Mobilization on an browser companies in! While moving/attacking 17 % reinforce with that and NKVD though. Firepower does however lack Org, meaning Mobile is.

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