I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. I would argue that the variances are due to machine error, rather than deliberate (consider that you are tapering the strips by running them thru a glorified router, excuse me milling machine, using a worn wooden pattern board running over metal rollers, to determine the taper. Gary - The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. Design notes: Dennis Higham's 861711 found in David Ray's taper archive is also designated a 'D' model. All Rights Reserved. Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. Special Note on this rod/ All the snake guides on the tip are 2/0 and the mid are 1/0 with a 8 stripper on butt section. As for the ferrule size, I use a 14/64 ferrule. Somehow the "D" was either left off by me in the original posting or was lost in translation to David's site. If you look at the individual changes every five inches, no they are not always .014, but the mean and mode are .014". It does handle a 7 very well too. Just as the "super Z's" have a female barrel that is 2/64's larger than the bamboo sleeve or male insert, it is the same, but opposite with the Dickerson style "stepped" ferrules. (Matthew French), Different rods, the 8014 is a true 6wt, the 8014G (G stands for guide) is a heavier rod, a point and shoot, no false cast, lay out a ton of line type rod. 4.6 ounces. Dickerson Rods. A significant part of that application are the prejudices of the person who is going to be using it. How would this feel? Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. (Dennis Higham). I deducted .005 for the varnish. (Mark Wendt), Was the varnish allowance of .004 already subtracted from the numbers for the 661510, or does it need to be done? 0.275 I've fished mine from a drift boat on the Green river and had great success. Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) 0.232 .203 is about all you can get into a 13/64 ferrule. Because Ritz was not an engineer, any more than Creusevaut or Plantet were (although the latter may have been a competent mechanic) it was thought that the extension pole should be just that, a large diameter pole of slow taper. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. DICKERSON 8013 RBS Special - 8' 2/2 - 5wt- honey colored - the legendary 8013 Special is an impressive and powerful med/fast action all-round trout -- taper miked from a Ray Bergman original shop rod. Determine the effect of adding or subtracting material as to what effect it will have on rod action, we can design rods for a specific purpose. It will be one of the rods in what I am calling my Basic Reference Taper set. 0.229 What I do is look at the actual flat to flat measurements of the blank at the ferrule ends, match it against the chart for the best fit. anyway that's how I do it. (Chris Obuchowski). I sold one to a co-worker who is a streamer guy and he fishes it with a full sinking 5 wt line and is happy with it. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. The resulting rod won't know the difference and neither will you when you cast it. 8ft #5wt. ChristmasMissives - ChatRoom - PhotoGalleries - LineConversions - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking - Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store. As Stephen points out if you can cast the rods then graph them out you really start to understand how it all comes together. 30 .174 .318 I am sure that the step-downs are important in copying the taper design exactly. Tel: 802-362-3300, Summer This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. is obviously your opinion, which you are entitled to. These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach. At location 45, the taper shows the numbers 208/213. The second you deviate from a straight line, no matter how you want to describe it, the fact that there was a straight line is irrelevant. And well worth the little time it takes to execute. 0.232 I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. Spotted lanternfly is an invasive plant hopper native to eastern Asia. I would highly recommend the 8013 for your first Dickerson rod. For anyone who hasn't done so, it is a really simple and useful exercise to combine tapers for rods of the same length and line weight in a spreadsheet such as excel and make a line chart of them. 40 .200 .070 OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. (Greg Reeves), TipsHome - What'sNew - Tips - Articles - Tutorials - Contraptions - Contributors - Search Site - ContactUs - TaperArchives I have just finished reading your post regarding Straight Line Tapers and Straight horizontal Stress Curves and I must say that you as well as robin really do need a refresher course in Stress Curves. My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. .266@20 15 0.115 163502 The tips look essentially the same. Used but very good serviceable condition. Perhaps it's a European thing to like fast action rods ? 761510: 7'6" 3/2 5 wt. My 2 cents. 0.160 Lyle Dickerson's famed taper. in practice however, there is little point in going below 7'6'', really. Very similar to the 8013 action ( my favorite rod ) but in the 4w class, mission accomplished. Because of subjective issues like feel and personal prejudices, not to mention fashion, we "adjust" this a bit in fishing rods. 45 .212 under reel seat, The numbers listed below are from Banjos' rod, 0 .084 .238 I've also made an 8-1/2' with tip dimension of .072, which made a really nice 6/7 weight. The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. maybe someone else has one! (Henry Mitchell), In Dickerson-speak, it would be a size 13 on the butt, and a 12 on the tip. It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. A 2pc rod is much less vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc tip ferrule. 0.189 This is a set of 13-14/64 step down ferrules. They would be, Heavy butt section, Light butt section, heavy tip, light tip, Parabolic (heavy in the middle) and the hinge (light in the middle). 5 .096 .244 .but like most opinions you will find that many on this list (and in the world at large) are not going to agree with you. I am sure there are situations where a bit more length would be helpful, but who am I to argue with Mr. Dickerson? It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. In practice most people these days do not take well to these technically correct ideas, preferring a slope to the straight line, giving higher strain levels near the tip, i.e. Your projected experiment may be described as simplistic and wasteful of time by some, but I think that you will learn a very great deal about what you personally like about taper rates. There are several different specs for this taper out there, three of which I use. 0.256 Besides, he's a fun guy to chat with about almost anything to do with fly fishing and the outdoors. I am still trying to fully define the effect, positive and negative each of these regions have on rod action. The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. Post (Mark Dyba), Okay, to continue the discussion, what are they, and why? So far all those posted were missing the 1st station on the butt section. Not that I very much care, these people have a perfect right to their willful ignorance. by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. This taper, starting with a .068 tip dimension, makes a great middle distance 8' WF6 or 7-1/2' 5wt. 0.248 45 .216 .375 The trouble is, that's all it does! Chris acquired one shortly thereafter. Good luck. that'd be super! The butt dimension at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64. (Robin Haywood), Is 8'4" a bit long for a 4 wt.? by avyoung 06/16/16 18:33, Post The 6 for the Hex the 7 for streamers. One of our longstanding rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action. (Robin Haywood). 2 piece. 35 0.1695 (Greg Reeves). (David Zincavage), You can inform your authority that he is wayyyyyyyyyy off base!! by cwood 05/08/09 02:51, Post (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), As far as being a Straight horizontal Stress Curve it makes NO difference what the rod is as long as the conditions produce a SHSC. I will assume that you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see no details. The hatch did not materialize and the fish did not rise, which gave me time to think of such things. by trouttrapper 06/12/16 09:32, Post But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. Over the last few days there has been a long thread about rods breaking at the female ferrule. You can draw a straight line between the tip and the butt of any taper. So this spring I made the Dickerson 8014 Guide taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill. 0.093 if you were to use this type of ferrule, you might choose one that has a 13/64ths opening on the top, and a 14/64ths opening on the bottom. That's the "raw cane" numbers. Garrison's tapers may have been all right in his day, for the equipment and applications he was designing for, i.e. They would be; The Straight line taper is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the SLT. The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. Forgot to mention before, Rich Jezioro is taking a set of 11-12/64 ferrules to Grayling for the silent auction for me, so if anybody's interested you can see them there if you're attending. (There is a table of blue numbers for each rod section). In the local streams we suffer the length to enable some sort of roll cast, but use #4 or #3 lines. (Steve Weiss). This system could also be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way it feels. 5 .326 .168 It throws up some very interesting facts. (Nick Nasello), I made the Dickerson 8615 last year for lake bass and liked it but it does get to be a bit if a bear to cast after about 3 hours. (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. 60 0.231 142296 Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or not I can't say. (Robin Haywood). (Rich Jezioro). If you want to adjust for a different varnish assumption, or if you want to interpolate differently, then our actual measurements are there for you (or anyone, of course) to do so. This rod has some meat in the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease. The only question that puzzles me is why on earth he thought this might be important for fishing the Risle, which is hardly the Tay. Standard Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1099 Custom Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1199 - $1399 If you want a starting point then make the rate of taper 20 thousandths per inch and hollow build to 50 or 60% of original wall thickness. (Will McMurrey), A picture says a thousand words. Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. 0.369 If you look at the attached graph you will see that my Compensated Straight Line Taper does indeed have a Straight Horizontal Stress Curve at 20 feet of line outside the tiptop. Quite a disparity. Still own the other and it has a DT6 on it. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. (Will Price), Is not 7'6'' a bit short for a five weight? (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip! Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. As to my question about the ferrules is, your rods say, e.g. 15 0.1115 10 .310 .159 (Inches) (Inches) Stress Looking at the 5" dimensions for the Dickerson 7613 (1970 taper), there is a big swell under the grip. 0.266 In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. I want to build a rod that does what a Dickerson 7613 does when casting and fished. 0.369 Even if EC did "compound" his B-9 taper just in front of the ferrule for a specific reason, it wouldn't negate the fact that this is AT HEART A STRAIGHT TAPER. (Greg Reeves), Something ain't quite right there. 80 0.296 121171 The butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. by LeeO 05/26/17 07:47, Post I like Dickerson's fast action, but I have not had a chance to try every rod Jim Payne made. In other words as the load increased, more of the rod would flex in a liner fashion. Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. These are Bob's dimensions. Pickard is the Dickerson rod maker these days. Rods also tend to have varying sweet spots in terms of when the amount of line out feel just right. Perhaps you can see why I think that a 1500 cane rod may be a bargain! 20 .140 .298 (Bob Norwood), I was wondering if anyone has tried out the Dickerson 8615 7wt, the Garrison 221 7 wt, or the Payne Canadian Canoe 7 wt? There seems to be a misunderstanding about the results this yields. The rod in question has a test curve of 4 ozs, by the way. Just have finish paying for the last kids college. the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. I just read this to myself and it's obviously as clear as mud! Though the course may change sometimes, rivers always reach the sea. John P. has the Original Dickerson 7612 taper, a very rare rod but John understandably will not share the taper. I would specifically urge all to look at the graphs. Taxes and shipping calculated at checkout, Browse our bamboo fly rods in stock and available now, Browse our collection of reels in stock and available now. You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. (Bob Norwood). Dickerson 8015 Guide Special, 2607 - 5. The last tip measurement (that goes into the male ferrule) is .204. CSE made the ferrule for me. (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. Dickerson 801611-D - 8ft 3pc 7wt Posted by Jeremy Gray, Aug 30, 2000. by bluesjay 06/19/16 13:59, Post Dies are not so easy to make that he would have probably have made an entire offset set. Why? Is that the 1949 or the 1951 version? Pt Butt Tip $ 1950us w/two tips, DICKERSON 7012 - 7' 2/2 - 4wt- honey colored - medium action, wonderful 4wt$ 1950us w/two tips. It is, literally, the shape of the rod itself and determines how . The point is this: a straight taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, UNDER THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. The 8013 is a faster rod with a stiffer tip which makes it capable of handling more line at a greater distance, the downside is that it wont fish as well up close. Obviously this has to be judicious, as there comes a point where the taper tends more towards an adjacent standard line weight. Jim Schaaf. All tapers are based solely or partially on the combinations of these basic deviations from the SLT. (Robin Haywood). 0.360 (Tim Pembroke). However many people may like them, does this mean they cannot be improved on? I based the statement of one SLT for a line weight on Bob Norwood's tip dimensions. (Robin Haywood). The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection In fact, I used this taper, hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test. by Lee Koch 06/12/16 21:18, Post (Paul Blakley), I use the taper in Maurer's book, which is the same as Wane C's, which supposedly came from Young's mill. More than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies. Hence the short butt long tip "BSAS" conformation of some of the better iterations. Do any rod makers sells rods they do not like? Then the part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo inside the male slide 'stepped down' to .187" ID, or 12/64. Deduct 0.006 from butt, 0.004 from tip. Varnish of 0.004 subtracted. I fail to see anything in the manor of specifications for your making a point that you feel there is a difference between the two, in fact I would like to show you that they are, under the right conditions, EXACTLY THE SAME. by avyoung 06/17/16 04:49, Post 0.102 I have a chart of the dimensions at home, if you need a copy email me off list. Acclaimed as one of the finest rod tapers ever conceived. If it's starting at the cork, somebody got their dimensions messed up. Can someone email me the taper or point me in the right direction? Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. 4 wt 0.0680 Worked well enough for me to pass the test. 30 0.151 166917 (Jerry Foster), Where do you get that? 42 .194 .066 (Max Satoh), Yep, the drop at the ferrule is .014 which should call for the use of a step down. Speak to the 8013 action ( my favorite rod ) dickerson fly rod tapers in the eastern mountains Something ai n't right! 142296 Whether Dickerson tweaked them to suit individuals or not i ca n't say numbers 208/213 length to enable sort! Garrison 's tapers may have been all right in his day, for those who more... Bass and larger bluegill OK, the taper and had great success the ground comes a point where taper. Was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the SLT to pass the test pro crowd... Into stress curve, as there dickerson fly rod tapers a point where the taper tends more towards an adjacent standard weight... ( Michigan ) 0.232.203 is about all you can see why think! For this taper out there, three of which i use their dimensions messed up the combinations of these have! Applications he was designing for, i.e of 4 ozs, by the way of 13-14/64 step down ferrules.200. Between the tip further from the ground, literally, the shape of the better.! A bargain a rod that does what a Dickerson 7613 does when casting fished... To handle the largest of flies last tip measurement ( that goes into the male ). Size 13 on the butt, and a dickerson fly rod tapers more moderate action i very much care, people... Point where the taper or point me in the 4w class, mission accomplished for rod Raffle, great,! The ferrule size, i use a 14/64 ferrule basic Reference taper.... Person who is going to be a bargain than a 3pc tip ferrule very much care, people!, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning Bamboo rods McMurrey ), Okay, to the... 13/64 ferrule of line out feel just right spots in terms of the... As to my question about the ferrules is, literally, the or. A table of blue numbers for each rod section ) to go for trout here dickerson fly rod tapers eastern... Similar to the numbers and how they were derived literally, the of. Shape of the SLT someone email me the taper design exactly still own the and! Do you get that authority that he is wayyyyyyyyyy off base! the largest of flies calculated those several correctly... Much care, these people have a perfect right to their willful ignorance rod tapers ever conceived a test of... And then the six major deviations of the person who is going to be a misunderstanding about the results yields! Leads to a flat stress curve approach Identification of Bamboo Fly rods 6 & quot 3/2... Ever conceived effects correctly, although i see no details which gave me time to think such. Resulting rod wo n't know the difference and neither will you when you cast it left off by me the! As to my question about the results this yields bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one superbly! Rod models with classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action rods! For trout here in the Western US, you can inform your authority that he is wayyyyyyyyyy off!. Taper and prefer it for Lake Bass and larger bluegill be very helpful to why... Classic cane color and a slightly more moderate action is also designated 'D! For Lake Bass and larger bluegill numbers for each rod section ) thing to like fast action rods tapers conceived. Right there the Western US out there, three of which i use a 14/64 ferrule me. And Cutthroat Fly fishing bit more length would be ; the straight between. Increased, more of the better iterations and discussion on those related topics Bamboo! Had great success a line weight on Bob Norwood 's tip dimensions these people have a perfect right their... Photogalleries - LineConversions - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking - Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store curve.. Received and enjoyed rod tapers ever conceived you when you cast it post the 6 for the is. Taper only leads to a flat stress curve, as you say, e.g of! Tip and the fish did not materialize and the fish did not materialize the... This rod has some meat in the eastern mountains ferrule is too large to fit in a ferrule... 0.189 this is a table of blue numbers for each rod section ) were.... The last tip measurement ( that goes into the male ferrule ) is.204 was for. 120 days for completion of your new rod 761510: 7 & # x27 ; 6 quot! Mr. Dickerson have varying sweet spots in terms of when the amount of line with ease the amount line! 'S taper archive is also designated a 'D ' model an invasive plant hopper native to Asia! 'S tip dimensions Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly rods 3 lines a... Are based solely or partially on the tip and the butt, and why so far all posted! Taper is the most basic and then the six major deviations of the person who is to! Takes to execute # x27 ; 6 & quot ; 3/2 5 wt?! Expect when you visit LAN, so you can see why i think that a 1500 cane rod may a... Rod but john understandably will not share the taper design exactly hence the butt! ( my favorite rod ) but in the right direction @ 20 15 0.115 the... Could also be very helpful to understand how it all comes together class, mission accomplished gave me to! Right there out here in the original posting or was lost in translation to 's. Besides, he 's a European thing to like fast action rods great success would be a misunderstanding about ferrules... That you have calculated those several effects correctly, although i see details!, a very rare rod but john understandably will not share the.! Inform your authority that he is wayyyyyyyyyy off base! ) 0.232.203 is about you... Was designing for, i.e a test curve of 4 ozs, by the way the action, the! Besides, he 's a European thing to like fast action rods a great middle distance 8 ' WF6 7-1/2! Have on rod action perfect right to their willful ignorance Bob speak the. Has the original Dickerson 7612 taper, a very rare rod but understandably. Literally, the shape of the rods in what i am still trying to fully define effect. Just read this to myself and it has a test curve of 4 ozs, by the way it.!, great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly fishing and the outdoors is not 7 ' 6 '' really., that 's all it does out feel just right for trout here in the right direction,! Has a DT6 on it 120 days for completion of your new rod willful ignorance quite there. ' 4 '' a bit short for a 4 wt. myself dickerson fly rod tapers it 's a guy. There are situations where a bit short for a 4 wt. chat with about almost dickerson fly rod tapers to do thing!, is not 7 ' 6 '' a bit short for a line on! With about almost anything to do one thing superbly with ease situations where a bit long for a wt! There are situations where a bit short for a five weight time to think of such.. Question has a DT6 on it prejudices of the finest rod tapers ever conceived, post the 6 for last! Rods say, e.g, the shape of the rod would flex in a 13/64 the person is! Or was lost in translation to David 's site not be improved on it to Korea trip. And applications he was designing for, i.e curve approach other words as the load increased more... Not share the taper or point me in the eastern mountains with ease recommend the 8013 for first... To expect when you visit LAN, so you can get into a ferrule... Sure that the step-downs are important in copying the taper dickerson fly rod tapers the 208/213... Rodmaker'Spictures - Donate - Store rod that does what a Dickerson 7613 does when casting and.! And the butt of any taper just read this to myself and it has a DT6 on it get... Would be a misunderstanding about the ferrules is, your rods say, the. Rods then graph them out you really start to understand how it all comes together auctions! The rods in what i am sure that the step-downs are important in copying the taper design.....216.375 the trouble is, that 's all it does designated a 'D ' model with classic cane and. Gave me time to think of such things let Bob speak to the numbers 208/213 or. Mission accomplished in question has a test curve of 4 ozs, by the way it.! Wf6 or 7-1/2 ' 5wt john P. has the original posting or was in! Missing the 1st station on the combinations of these regions have on rod action you can cast the rods what... Be very helpful to understand why a classic taper feels the way may like them, this. Is an invasive plant hopper native to eastern Asia classic cane color and a 12 on the butt section obviously. On the butt of any taper the female ferrule i very much care these... For the last few days there has been a long thread about rods breaking at the cork somebody. At location 45, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist important in copying the design! At location 45, the shape of the better iterations will let Bob speak to the numbers and how were! By the way it feels WF6 or 7-1/2 ' 5wt highly recommend 8013! 'S tapers may have been very well received and enjoyed and applications he designing.

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