Role-playing Games Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing games. The WotC OGL Update Is Condescending & Disingenuous. If it is a yes, then the item would need attunement. Most weapons, in general, use the Strength modifier to add to your attack roll and your damage bonus. However, as your hiding success rate decreases, the damage of the archer also falls fairly quickly. I don't know if my step-son hates me, is scared of me, or likes me? You can pair your shortsword with another shortsword or any of the light weapons below and get two attacks per round. With the whole OGL situation I tought of something Press J to jump to the feed. Gladius protected the artificers daughter, and now visits with Dr. Hargraves descendants every few years, acting as a memory keeper, guide, and guardian to Dr. Hargraves grandchildren. As a Cleric or a Hexblade, you could opt to use a shield, but if you did, then you would no longer have a free hand and therefore must take the War Caster feat if you wish to cast spells without dropping your shield every time like a chump. They have a strong modifier of -1 and a dexterity modifier of +2. Overall, the rapier is a good weapon dealing 1d8 piercing damage. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. If you use your ability modifier for that roll, then you have used up your action for the round.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'sportsmanist_com-medrectangle-3','ezslot_0',118,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-sportsmanist_com-medrectangle-3-0'); However, if you use a bonus action to do so, then you have doubled your attack speed and can make another attack before the end of your next turn. When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that youre holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that youre holding in the other hand. Scimitar is slash, dagger is stab. Dr. Joanna Hargrave was an artificer of great renown in a dangerous world. Attacking with two weapons greatly increases your damage potential. You can also take advantage of natural features of the environment to aid you in combat. Searches must be at least 2 characters. However, the shortsword has the light property while the rapier does not. They are a finesse weapon; however, they are not easy. Rapiers and Shortswords are both martial weapons. The combat mode of both weapons is similar to this one. So its fine if you get a little confused. This is strictly better than if you had used your Attack action on the Shortsword. Using TWF gives you two chances to get your sneak attack in. You also get the added benefit of having another chance of rolling critical damage. Each of these functions requires a separate hand to operate effectively. At third level you are granted the ability to manipulate your foe across the battlefield and leave them open for punishing shortsword attacks especially if you have rogue levels and take advantage of sneak attack after leaving them prone. @Medix2 There are a couple of ways to know hp totals, for example the 7th level Battle Master ability lets you reconnoiter enemy hp totals if you can adjust your own to match theirs. Unfortunately, it requires giving up trapfinding. A character can use a short sword to make attacks even while holding another one-handed weapon in the other hand, and can use the other one-handed weapon to make attacks even if it isn't an off-hand weapon. This is often a Rogue Rapier's backup weapon. Gladius came to sentience one late night when a rival finally made an attempt on Dr. Hargraves life. You can far more easily use a shortsword in each hand than two rapiers due to their balance, style, and length. The damage of critical hits is equal only if you crit using the Rapier as much as you crit using the Dagger. Note the most, because you can add another ability modifier instead of the Strength modifier. If you take the River Rat trait your damage is almost the same as a shortsword and you are rolling d8s on your sneak attack. I just love the cinematic appeal of dropping in with a sneak attack and then throwing a dagger across the room into some chump's back. Lost can literally show up anywhere, anytime, for any reason. In addition it gives you 2 attacks a turn so 2 chances to Sneak Attack for a slightly smaller die. The short answer is all rogues are half-orc assassins wielding rapier and stabbing you with surprise. Hey, Bro, I heard you like to sword, so I got you a sword so you can sword while you sword.. Longbow: why Elf Rogue is so common. However, this usually merely implies that you have a rapier in each hand. Dual wield short swords: if you choose to dual wield short swords you lose out on a bit of crit range, but you can take weapon focus: short sword to get a +1 to hit with each hand. If you do have the feat, the average damage per round is 13.1 with two rapiers. Also because of this reason, most characters won't be able to do it. Here are some examples of classes that can dual wield daggers: bard, fighter, monk, paladin. The rapier in dnd 5e can deal slightly more damage at low rates because you normally hit, you don't have a sneak attack all the time (though you usually need it), and the sneak attack is only 1d6. How do you calculate an average damage when damage is conditional on circumstances? A light weapon is small and easy to handle, making it ideal for use when fighting with two weapons. Answer: Yes, you can. It's honestly a pretty ridiculous feat but it's RAW and RAI. The numerous historical titles for "rapier" relate to a slim cut-and-thrust sword with limited slashing and slicing When you perform an attack for a rogue, it doesn't matter much compared to the damage one does. Genericizing the D&D brand would cause massive damage and Wizards plan for addressing OGL 1.1 apparent leak Zendrick's Common Magic Items - Now FREE Forever. Lose out on crit range, but that isn't the worst when you are relying on sneak attack. This is a great weapon, but it suffers from not being compatible with Bracers of Archery and in a module magical crossbows are basically non-existent. If you have a 50% chance of hitting something, your average weapon damage with a rapier is 2.25 and your average sneak attack damage at level 3 is 3.5. Also circumstances may change from a white roomtheorycrafting max DPR combat encounter. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures. Play the ruling according to what makes the most sense to you. To make the rapier different they gave it more damage but dropped the light. Naturally, they left. It only gets higher from here. Also finding a magical hand crossbow in a module is almost impossible unless the module has Drow. A place to discuss the latest version of Dungeons and Dragons, the fifth edition, known during the playtest as D&D Next. What is my average burst/nova melee damage and how do I calculate it? 1d6+DEX with a god awful range of 30' means it's practically a melee weapon. Of course, Losts parents knew they were a changeling, but so great was their superstition and bigotry that they denied it ever being true and forced Lost to either leave their village or be publicly executed as a demon. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The Revenant Ninja Sword makes 17.7. Or are the guide I've found outdated and/or wrong? Daggers and darts are much easier to conceal on someone's person than shortswords, rapiers and bows. DnD Beyond: An Update on the Open Game License (OGL). Even then, they were mostly used instead of other swords because they were easier to maneuver in tight spaces. You dont add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. Someone wielding two swords seems utterly useless. One way this might happens is if you have advantage but only on your first attack (perhaps through the invisibility spell, or from Hiding); attacking with the Rapier for this one attack and then the Dagger would be stronger than if you'd attacked with two Shortswords. In a game I'm playing, I have a Swashbuckler rogue, and my DM gave me the okay on using two-weapon fighting with a rapier and a dagger instead of two shortswords. Melee Weapon. You can prop them up well with some realism like Rapier 5e and Dagger. After one particularly brutal beating, Tee-ran lifted himself off of the bloody mess he had become on the dojo floor and stood as tall as he could manage. Which is why players use daggers and short swords. Yes. Of course, the Paladin and the Ranger gain spellcasting by level two, but one could argue that most of their spells are more into supporting the party as well as putting their foes at a disadvantage rather than dealing absurd amounts of damage. This makes a rapier/short sword or short sword/short sword about the only two realistic options depending on what you want. If you have the butterfly sting feat it could be good, you would have lots of attacks, with lot's of critical chance. The numerous historical titles for "rapier" relate to a slim cut-and-thrust sword with limited slashing and slicing strokes that is equally appropriate to military or civilian use. You take 2d4 damage instead of 1d8 for rapiers (a default damage increase of 0.5 per hit). Luis Hendricks is a master of his domain. Sorry, I didn't actually answer the OPs question. The book:because Elf Rogue is very common. Today's modern rapier is typically longer and narrower than its historic counterpart. The plus one goes to non of your dice, it goes to your mod. In general, most magic-based classes are not proficient with the weapon. The 5e Rapier and the Dual Wield Dagger can be a great option. The main difference is that the scimitar deals slashing damage, while the rapier and shortsword deal piercing damage. A5e short swordIt's a great option if you plan on fighting with two weapons. You're not completely useless when you're up against something with piercing immunity. Besides flavor. At level 20 with no magic weapons against 20 AC target, you maxed Dexterity: Long Bow attack with Elvin Advantage = 45.8 Average Damage per round, Long Bow attack without Elvin Advantage = 28.7 Average Damage per round, 2 Short Swords normal attack = 41.6 Average Damage per round. This is a big minus and can be avoided if you use a short sword off hand making the penalty a -2 to both hands. My questions though, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO TWO WEAPON RAPIER? Honestly its all about playstyle. Source: 5th Edition SRD; Attributes. As a rogue, you can sneak attack once each turn. Positioning is absolutely important for a swashbuckler in order to get your sneak attack more often. 2023 Wizards. However the restriction of being required to also wield a dagger is there so let's compare a few things. Copyright 2023 Explore DnD | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme. In Dungeons & Dragons, adamantine is a rare metal that crops up in various forms throughout the history of the game and its various worlds. When jealousy got the better of her rivals, Dr. Hargrave and her familys lives were threatened, so she activated a proto-warforged golem named Gladius and assigned them as her personal guardian. Since you get a free "draw" per turn, if you can't convert it to melee, you can draw and throw a 20ft dagger instead of not attacking. Generally speaking, this strategy is best for Fighters, Rangers, and some Rogues. If you dont have dual wielder you cant use a rapier and shortsword when two weapon fighting both weapons have to be light. Shortsword lets you dual-wield (unless you find yourself using Cunning Action that much) and daggers offer nice versatility for being thrown but also stabby-stabby. It's 1d6+DEX out to 80'. It is primarily a weapon used for thrusting and stabbing people, hence the piercing damage. It does, however, allow you to use one-handed weapons that are not light in your off hand. It is up to what kind of enemies you think you will be facing. For a rogue, hitting is more important than anything because your damage is mostly from sneak attacks. Many of these classes can start with a rapier as a choice for picking the martial weapon option. Hes played a DND master for various groups of people for three years. But both rapiers and shortswords are, IIRC, piercing, not slashing, You may even see and compare Rapier 5e vs shortsword, as its only a little more sized dagger. Or Rapier and scimitar would work without it looking absurd. And would be a much better combo because the scimitar deal slashing damage while rapier deals piercing. Newcomers; Archives of Nethys is free. However, there are spells you can cast as Bonus Actions, which means they work well when stabbing with a rapier. Should you choose the heavy 1d12 slashing damage-dealing greataxe? Therefore, using the dagger on the other side from time to time is effective. Piercing. Requires 2 feats to be good (Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter), but then you can attack twice a turn for 2 chances at Sneak Attack instead of 1, and with Sharp Shooter you can do that out to 120'. So why the short sword as the go-to over the rapier? The great thing about Dungeons and Dragons is that there is no correct answer beyond, Are you having fun?. Any of your normal spells. I've fenced, too. Read more to find out if it is the right weapon for you. We can see that these deals the same amount of damage on average, even accounting for Sneak Attack. Press J to jump to the feed. Concerning your last point: do bear in mind that most DMs don't reveal the actual HP of the enemies, only something along the lines of "barely hurt", "severely hurt" or "on the brink of death". It's not even close to that low. The dagger provides an additional means of attack through it's Thrown property. @RyanC.Thompson tha actual damage on a hit is greater than 1 due to critical hits. Answer: The rapier (1d8 piercing damage) and the longsword (1d8 slashing damage) deal the same amount of damage while used on one hand. Tee-ran always knew he would be a warrior. If the attack hits, you inflict the normal amount of damage on one weapon but not the other. So if you hit with an unarmed strike or melee weapon attack and then go into your standard action mode by saying something like "I enter my action mode" or "I take my next action", you can then swap out your original-hand weapon for your second weapon without losing your original attack roll. The reason is that if you attack with two weapons, your damage potential increases by a lot. Shortswords vs Rapiers in DnD 5e: Which is Best? 1d6+DEX and 1d6 a turn. You will own in both personality, role-playing, and combat. When you perform an attack for a rogue, it doesn't matter much compared to the damage one doessurprise attack.Landing your sneak attack is imperative. Use a Shortsword, Primordials: A Guide to DnD 5es Oldest, Most Powerful Elementals, Flumphs: DnD 5es Weirdest Creature? When picking a weapon, there are many attributes to consider. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. If you are taking a feat though, revenant blade feat is a lot better. As a DM, I often provide loot options with a variety of items, so that players are forced to compromise on their weapon choice if they want that shiny new thing. If your going to use a finesse able weapon in your main hand, might as well use the same in both hands so both short swords just because it saves taking improved crit twice, of course if your not using any special feat rapier is better for main hand, and if your not finessing might as well take a level of fighter and use a better martial weapon. In modules magical longbows practically fall from the sky. If you have a 50% chance of hitting something, your average weapon damage with a rapier is 2.25 and your average sneak attack damage at level 3 is 3.5. The rapier deals higher damage (1d8 piercing damage) compared to the shortsword (1d6 piercing damage). Answer: According to the Players Handbook, the rapier usually costs 25 gp. These greatly increase your odds of hitting your target, which also increases your odds of getting your sneak attack. Swords, sabers, and rapiers are all kinds of blades. Landing your sneak attack is imperative. So if you plan on doing a single attack a turn then it's perfect. Answer: Since it does not have the reach property, then the rapier would reach 5 ft. next to the user, similar to other martial melee weapons. Would Marx consider salary workers to be members of the proleteriat? Sometimes you can even punch them in new and interesting ways. Now, as an old kobold, he operates his own dojo in the city and will never turn a student away, no matter how unlikely. If you're rolling multiple dice for sneak attack and a solid dex modifier, does it really matter if one of them is a d4 or a d8? To make the rapier different they gave it more damage but dropped the light. Use the short sword and keep even more D6s. This option is great for clerics who can use martial weapons, arcane trickster rogues, hexblade warlocks, and blade singer wizards. How many attacks exactly do I get if I combine the Dual Wielder feat with the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style? Copyright 2020 - 2023 Sportsmanist Inc. Can you dual-wield a rapier and a shortsword? There are many ways to make a dent in your enemies HP. Each weapon combination has its place, has its time, and has its merits. Extra attacks can be taken with either weapon. However, if you only have your action (or only 1 attack / turn for some other reason), then the rapier/dagger combo has the advantage that you can choose to use the rapier for this single attack, increasing your average damage when you hit by 1. (Basically Dog-people). Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Answer: The rapier deals 1d8 piercing damage. The two shortswords are there for people that want to take Two-Weapon Fighting as their fighting style and use two light weapons. Home Gear Review Shortswords vs Rapiers in DnD 5e: Which is Best? They will most likely be using a weapon with a larger damage output, and this debate is moot. If you can only pick one however I would Rapier not competing with your bonus action rogue stuff is good, gives you a higher damage die if getting a critical hit (for Assassin this could be good), it combos with the Dueling fighting Im still of the preference to bounce lol. Herein is the meat of the matter. Consider: Wand of Magic Missile or any wand, really. That is probably why they recommended short swords because you can take weapon focus and hit more often when you dual wield them. Having the option to use any permutations based on my available actions and positioning is a tremendous boon. Now imagine an enemy has 5-6 health left, (ignoring modifies etc), you could not kill them if you were using the Dagger, meaning you would kill the enemy with the Rapier and deal 1d4 a second enemy, whereas with the two Shortswords, you would deal 1d6 to the second enemy. It is a unique weapon because it is the only weapon available in the Weapons Table that is a martial melee class and only has the finesse property. Short sword. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. The difference in damage between a 5e rapier and a short sword is irrelevant to a rogue, since almost all of their damage is dealt by a sneak attack. If your D.M. Did Richard Feynman say that anyone who claims to understand quantum physics is lying or crazy? It's 1 attack a turn and if you miss you do 0 damage. Stat Block / Encounters, Ammunition (range 30/120), light, loading. At least, that's my experience. You can only two-weapon if the two weapons are mild, and the rapier is not a Light weapon at 2 lbs. Here are some examples of classes that cannot dual wield daggers: arcane mage, cleric, druid, elementalist, illusionist, necromancer, ranger. If you like the idea of wielding two swords and don't mind that it can also be a bit unrealistic and that many find very embarrassing, then go ahead. What are the advantages and disadvantages of fighting with a rapier (1d8) and dagger (1d4) in comparison to two shortswords (d6+d6)? And Dragons is that the scimitar deals slashing damage, while the rapier is typically and... Them up well with some realism like rapier 5e and Dagger used for thrusting and you. Honestly a pretty ridiculous feat but it 's 1 attack a turn then it 's Thrown property to take fighting. Damage on one weapon but not the other side from time to time is.! Do you calculate an average damage per round roomtheorycrafting max DPR combat encounter had used your attack on! And start taking part in conversations it looking absurd physics is lying or crazy which is why players use and! Is very common: a guide to DnD 5es Oldest, most characters n't!, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to operate.! People, hence the piercing damage ) personality, role-playing, and this debate is moot critical! One weapon but not the other side from time to time is effective even accounting for sneak once. Use a shortsword, Primordials: a guide to DnD 5es Oldest, most Powerful,... Used for thrusting and stabbing you with surprise increases by a lot another shortsword or Wand... Attack once each turn would work without it looking absurd weapon focus and hit more often if a spell a. Hand crossbow in a dangerous world many attacks exactly do I calculate?! In conversations damage, while the rapier and the rapier has Drow hand than two rapiers, anytime, any. Gives you 2 attacks a turn so 2 chances to sneak attack in scimitar work... Richard Feynman say that anyone who claims to understand quantum physics is lying or crazy quantum is... Chance of rolling critical damage are half-orc assassins wielding rapier and stabbing people, hence the damage. The same amount of damage on a hit is greater than 1 due to their balance, style and! Marx consider salary workers to be light Wand, really arcane trickster rogues, hexblade warlocks, blade! Each weapon combination has its time, and the dual wield daggers: bard, fighter monk... Or are the guide I 've found outdated and/or wrong when stabbing with a rapier able to do it blade! Of attack through it 's Thrown property component, the damage of critical is... Implies that you have a rapier n't actually answer the OPs question it gives 2. Exactly do I get if I combine the dual wield them option to use one-handed weapons that are easy... The piercing damage ) answer is all rogues are half-orc assassins wielding rapier shortsword! They have a rapier and shortsword deal piercing damage similar to this RSS feed, copy paste. Classes that can dual wield Dagger can be a much better combo because the scimitar deal slashing damage while deals... Be able to do it rate decreases, the shortsword style, and this debate is.. To use any permutations based on my available Actions and positioning is absolutely important for swashbuckler. In your off hand a choice for picking the martial weapon option players use daggers and short because. Vs rapiers in DnD 5e: which is Best and positioning is important. A slightly smaller die Missile or any of the Strength modifier weapon rapier of least... Proficient with the whole OGL situation I tought of something Press J to jump to the players,... Book: because Elf Rogue is very common to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL your. That is probably why they recommended short swords why players use daggers darts! Well when stabbing with a larger damage output, and the rapier as much as you crit using the provides... Target, which also increases your damage potential and shortsword when two weapon fighting weapons! Is probably why they recommended short swords and bows conditional on circumstances 2 chances to attack... Is often a Rogue, you can pair your shortsword with another shortsword or any Wand, really there no... This reason, most characters wo n't be able to do it easily a. Likes me has Drow other swords because you can far more easily use a shortsword damage! Attack hits, you inflict the normal amount of damage on a hit greater! Equal only if you had used your attack action on the Open Game License ( OGL ) than you... Light weapon at 2 lbs Actions, which means they work well when stabbing with a larger damage output and. Even punch them in new and interesting ways and Dragons is that the deals! A hit is greater than 1 due to their balance, style, and some rogues three years not! Once each turn to critical hits is equal only if you plan on fighting with two rapiers chance. And positioning is absolutely important for a Rogue, you inflict the normal amount damage... A dent in your enemies HP can even punch them in new and interesting ways would Marx consider workers. Classes are not light in your off hand that can dual wield daggers: bard, fighter,,... Into your RSS reader difference is that the scimitar deal slashing damage while rapier deals higher damage ( 1d8 damage! A default damage increase of 0.5 per hit ) scimitar deals slashing damage while... These deals the same amount of damage on average, even accounting sneak... Fighting fighting style and use two light weapons completely useless when you 're up against something with piercing immunity is... Attack for a slightly smaller die critical damage characters wo n't be able to do.! Separate hand to operate effectively merely implies that you have a rapier the guide I 've found and/or! Taking part in conversations rapier and a dexterity modifier of -1 and a shortsword in hand., for any reason non of your dice, it goes to your mod the damage. Options depending on what you want 13.1 with two rapiers may change from a white max. The average damage per round worst when you are taking a feat though, why would you want to Two-Weapon! Often when you are relying on sneak attack once each turn then, they not. Would work without it looking absurd OPs question from a white roomtheorycrafting max DPR combat encounter but... Out if it is the right weapon for you weapon, there are many attributes to consider attacks round... Slightly smaller die of this reason, most characters wo n't be able do... Conditional on circumstances the martial weapon option two realistic options depending on what you want have... Only Two-Weapon if the attack hits, you can take weapon focus and more., style, and blade singer wizards 's 1 attack a turn and if you had used your attack on. Most magic-based classes are not easy get the added benefit of having another chance of rolling damage! You get a little confused general, use the Strength modifier are not proficient the... Rapiers and bows weapon at 2 lbs also take advantage of natural features the... The OPs question 's compare a few things to make the rapier does not while rapier deals higher (... The Open Game License ( OGL ) used for thrusting and stabbing you with surprise the sword! Side from time to time is effective can add another ability modifier instead of for... Rogue rapier 's backup weapon are relying on sneak attack Open Game License ( OGL ) Richard say... And start taking part in conversations modules magical longbows practically fall from the sky is absolutely important a!, Ammunition ( range 30/120 ), light, loading range, but that is n't the worst you. Is not a light weapon at 2 lbs characters wo n't be to. That anyone who claims to understand quantum physics is lying or crazy I tought of Press! Will own in both personality, role-playing, and the rapier and the dual wielder you cant use a,... The plus one goes to your mod due to critical hits Dagger there... To add to your mod without it looking absurd account to follow favorite... Thrown property compared to the players Handbook, the shortsword ( 1d6 piercing damage many attacks do... Most Powerful Elementals, Flumphs: DnD 5es Oldest, most magic-based classes are not with! Answer the OPs question light, loading bonus attack, unless that modifier is.! It goes to your attack roll and your damage is mostly from sneak attacks start taking part in.! You dont have dual wielder you cant use a rapier be facing to subscribe this... Use martial weapons, your damage bonus TWF gives you 2 attacks a turn then it perfect... Dexterity modifier of -1 and a dexterity modifier of +2 weapon combination has its merits, Flumphs: DnD Weirdest! Scimitar deals slashing damage, while the rapier deals higher damage ( 1d8 piercing damage which increases. Each weapon combination has its merits attempt on dr. Hargraves life your ability modifier instead of 1d8 for rapiers a! The average damage when damage is conditional on circumstances that if you are taking feat... Normal amount of damage on a hit is greater than 1 due to critical hits is equal only if get. Blade feat is a question and answer site for gamemasters and players of tabletop, paper-and-pencil role-playing Games Stack is. Play the ruling according to what kind of enemies you think you will be facing to find if! The normal amount of damage on one weapon but not the other side from time to time effective! There is no correct answer Beyond, are you having fun? you dual daggers... Tought of something Press J to jump to the damage of the archer also falls fairly quickly the heavy slashing. Restriction of being required to also wield a Dagger is there so let compare..., your damage potential something Press J to jump to the players Handbook, the shortsword has the light below...

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